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Right to Die: What is Your View?

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caskur™
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« on: February 27, 2009, 12:31:12 pm »
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Here is a horrendous case of state torture.....poor woman has been made to live like a vegetable for all these years and now the Pope is involved...

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/article5687405.ece


Pope Benedict XVI joins fight over right to die of coma victim Eluana Englaro

Richard Owen, Rome

(Reuters/Handout)
Eluana Englaro has been in a coma for 17 years




Doctors were removing all life support last night from an Italian woman in a coma whose “right to die” has triggered a constitutional crisis and provoked an intervention from the Pope.

As Silvio Berlusconi’s centre-right Government was rushing an emergency decree through parliament ordering the restoration of medical care for Eluana Englaro, the clinic in Udine that is treating her ignored appeals for a delay.

“We are proceeding with the total suspension of artificial nutrition,” Carlo Alberto Defanti, her neurologist, said. At her father’s request, medical staff at the clinic began reducing water and nutrients through feeding tubes on Friday to Ms Englaro, who has been in a vegetative coma for 17 years. Doctors said that her “path to death” would almost certainly become irreversible by the end of this week and perhaps sooner. She was being given sedatives to calm muscle spasms, they said.

Giuseppe Campeis, a lawyer for Ms Englaro’s father, Beppino, who won a decade-long legal battle last September to let her die, said: “We are continuing with medical procedures aimed at ensuring a gentle death.”


The case has sparked an open power struggle between Mr Berlusconi and President Napolitano. In a last-minute move on Friday Mr Berlusconi sided with the Vatican and drew up an emergency decree to prevent Ms Englaro’s death. President Napolitano refused to sign it on the ground that the Prime Minister could not arbitrarily overturn a legal ruling and that such a sensitive issue had to be fully debated by parliament.

The decree was due to reach the Senate tomorrow but was urgently rescheduled for today. It passes to the lower house tomorrow. The decree states that, pending complete legislation on euthanasia, food and water to sustain life or “provide for the physiological goal of easing suffering” cannot be suspended for those unable to take their own decisions.

Beppino Englaro and friends of his daughter have testified that before her accident she declared that if she ever found herself in a coma she would not want to be kept alive artificially.

Ms Englaro has been in a coma since January 1992, when her car slid on ice and smashed into a lamp post as she was driving back from a party at a friend’s house. She was previously cared for at a church-run hospital in Lecco on Lake Como, near her home but was transferred last week to La Quiete, a private clinic in Udine, which said that it was prepared to help her to die.

Maurizio Sacconi, the Health Minister, said that the clinic was not qualified to help Ms Englaro to die because it was not a hospice for the terminally ill but primarily a rest home for the aged. He said that he had sent a team of health inspectors to the home to investigate “irregularities”.

The Englaro case has become a symbol for the Vatican’s “pro-life” campaign but also for right-to-die campaigners. Cardinal Angelo Bagnasco, head of the Italian Episcopal Conference, said that refusing food and water to Ms Englaro was murder. “A light is going out, the light of a life,” he said.

Pope Benedict asked the faithful yesterday to pray “for those who are gravely ill but cannot in any way provide for themselves and are totally dependent on the care of others”. He did not refer directly to Ms Englaro but reaffirmed “the absolute and supreme dignity of every human being”.

Mr Englaro was baffled by the latest twists in the controversy. “All I can say is that sometimes reality goes way beyond the wildest imagination,” he told Spain’s El PaÍs newspaper yesterday. “The Church has nothing to do with this issue.”

The tussle over Ms Englaro’s life has revived accusations that the Vatican is dictating Italian policy. Mr Berlusconi, who had previously stayed out of the controversy, reacted after Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone, the Vatican Secretary of State, implored him to “stop this crime against humanity”.

Mr Berlusconi said he believed that he represented the feelings of most Italians. Opinion polls, however, suggest that Italians are divided, with 47 per cent in favour of Ms Englaro’s “right to die”, 47 per cent against, and 6 per cent undecided.

Lives on hold

- Terri Schiavo became a US celebrity during her 15-year right-to-die battle, which ended in 2005 when her life support was switched off. Her husband wanted her to die; her parents did not

- Policeman Gary French Dockery emerged from a coma after seven-and-a-half years, talking animatedly. He was shot in the head in 1988. He became silent the day after and died a year later

Sources: CNN, Time


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« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2009, 08:28:41 am »
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Ppl have emerged from coma accepted.


Bt nobody has emerged from a black hole.

Its been too long, nw let go.
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The war, its nt ovr yet :-(
But I aint a part of it anymore :-)


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caskur™
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« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2009, 08:53:36 am »
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What beats me is the fact that Christians who supposedly believe in Heaven, worry about dying so much...you'd think the Pope would say, "she is going to a better place" or something. Even if that isn't true, that is his belief and 99% of Catholic Italy.

We treat pets better than some people get treated.

I understand that the "right to die" is open to corruption....

sometimes I think people who get killed in car accidents are the lucky ones...

today I saw a show about a Malaysian building collapsing....killing 17 people....or was it 17 were pulled out....anyway, some died and some were trapped....I do have a fear of tall buildings and I've had that since childhood. I couldn't think of anything WORSE than being burried alive.....that would have to be the nastiest  way to go.

to me, death isn't as bad as how some people have to injure living. I am shocked when I hear other people think contrary to that belief...
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arete
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« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2009, 10:49:44 am »
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I dunno, I don't get the argument because "life support" is keeping
these people alive, true?  So, it's not deciding whether these people should
live or die because without the life support they would die NATURALLY anyway.
I guess we should do what we can to save a life but to keep someone alive
that is meant to have died ain't so right either.  When it's my time to GO, I wanna GO.
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arete
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« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2009, 10:51:06 am »
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I love her hair.  It's so dark it has
a blue tint.  wow.
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caskur™
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« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2009, 11:18:35 am »
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I bet it is grey now after being in a coma for 17 yrs.
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bella
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« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2009, 11:30:49 am »
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i was in a coma & came out ok
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caskur™
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« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2009, 11:32:33 am »
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i was in a coma & came out ok

You weren't in one for 17 yrs though, were you?
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arete
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« Reply #8 on: February 28, 2009, 11:48:30 am »
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Can u imagine how her life would be if she woke up now?
WOW----that would be something else.  Talk about a shocker!
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caskur™
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« Reply #9 on: February 28, 2009, 12:18:34 pm »
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My friend Maria who is getting married in two weeks time after a 25 yr courtship is marrying a man whose mother just died a few days ago. She has been a vegetable for 14 yrs....He told his mother he was going to marry and I asked him if she understood and he told me she moved her eyes a little when he told her....a couple weeks ago, Charlie was called to the hospital and shown his mother's urine had blood in it.....her lungs were filling up with fluid a few days ago and she passed away.

Charlie was an EXCELLENT son to her, visiting her nearly everyday for 14 yrs...now Charlie is free to marry without worrying about his mum anymore and paying for the top cover care...Charlie's dad died last year in his 80's and Charlie looked after him too AND kept a full time job.

Charlie's mum became a vegetable when a blood vessel burst in her brain while hand washing some clothes.
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arete
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« Reply #10 on: February 28, 2009, 12:24:32 pm »
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Awwww----well then his wife to be is
a lucky girl.
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arete
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« Reply #11 on: February 28, 2009, 12:25:14 pm »
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Bella, how long were you in a coma?
Whaaaat happened? 
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caskur™
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« Reply #12 on: February 28, 2009, 12:33:23 pm »
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Awwww----well then his wife to be is
a lucky girl.


She is lucky to have him....he isn't so lucky marrying her though...

Charlie and Maria .....Maria used to live across the road....she moved around the corner....she is Italian but grew up in Nice France....came to Australia when she was 14....got married, had two boys and divorced....then she met Charlie's brother, but Charlie wanted her and after the brother and her broke up, Charlie moved in on her and they have been together, on and off for all these years...

Maria is now in her 50's....STILL only has a 100 word vocab and is loud and bawdy, very bawdy....Charlie is Italian too...Maria has always been a needy annoying neighbour but considers me her "sister"....lol...

I can't WAIT til she moves to Charlie's house in two weeks time...
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« Reply #13 on: March 01, 2009, 02:21:46 am »
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Pneumonia is the main cause of the elderly dying.

Usually they fall over, break hips, are hospitalized and then catch pneumonia.

I am for euthanasia, which has been practiced the whole time the debate rages on.

In regards to this poor lasses plight, it is a shame she cannot be delivered a lethal injection and has to starve and dehydrate to death. How sickening for her and the family to be put in such a shocking situation.

I was knocked out once and had serious concussion. I spent a week in hospital over it. I know now if you die in an accident, there is no pain whatsoever. The only pain you get is waking up.
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